Trial and (Mosty) Error. - 2007/03/03 19:16Minmatar Kamikaze theme-deck, with Trial And Error providing the kill. Den of Malidiction's get-ships-back engine is costly in terms of cards, but I find I can usually get it work. The fact that everything in the deck is cheap helps.
I've got Cyclones, Typhoons, and Tempests all begging to get into this deck... but it cuts the focus down something fierce. Any advice on the effectiveness of these cards would be greatly appreciated.
Without further ado, the deck:
Tower: Liberty Tower
Outer Regions: Sansha's Nation Heaven Society of Concious Thought
Locations: 4x Echos of Gloom Bay 4x Star Chart Enterprises 3x Scordite
Ships: 4x Probe 4x Rifter 4x Breacher 4x Slasher
News: 2x Insurance Fraud 4x Bloodshed 4x Trial and Error 4x Adaster's Disaster 3x Mind Control
Starbase Structures: 3x Scrap Metal Garage 4x Den of Malidiction
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Smeelbo
User Cruiser
Posts: 224
Re:Trial and (Mosty) Error. - 2007/03/03 20:17I don't own Trial and Error, but looking on it, it seems a very powerful card to base a deck around, and especially for Minmatar.
Since T & E depends on ships in the graveyard, you could look at ships with Kamikaze as a substitute for news.
If it were my deck, and I owned the T & E's to do it, I think I would make the following changes:
1) Tighten up the locations a bit, specifically depending a bit less on Scordite and Star Chart. I often like a Sansha's, and maybe a Remote Research Facilities as a short cut to getting an extra Kamikaze in the scrap heap.
2) Maybe trade some news for a few more ships, especially more Kamikaze. Not sure though, but I feel better with closer to half ships, rather than a third.
I would really have to see it in action though. It looks strong.
Smeelbo
Post edited by: Smeelbo, at: 2007/03/03 20:18
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RedX
User Cruiser
Posts: 129
Re:Trial and (Mosty) Error. - 2007/03/03 20:41You make a point about the scordite, there. I originially thought to do the Tourister thing, but I had to find something to make Probe worthwhile. Fragile, though...
Are there any other ships aside from Wreathe with Kamikaze? I can't think of any. Stabbers come close, but I've only got one. Maybe when the next expansion comes out there'll be a few more to fill the deck out.
Hrm... considering the kamikaze ships as a replacement for burn, rather than a complement to it... I'll think about that, maybe run up an alternate deck with less burn in it.
I'll try the deck out in action tonight, and report back.
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Smeelbo
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Posts: 224
Re:Trial and (Mosty) Error. - 2007/03/03 20:46Also, I use Sebiestor's Smelting Plant as a substitute for SCC Global Market. This helps for longer games. You can pay 10 ISK instead of sacking a ship for kamikaze.
You might try feeding Pyroxeres to those Scordites.
Time to buy more booster displays....
Smeelbo
Post edited by: Smeelbo, at: 2007/03/03 21:14
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Smeelbo
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Posts: 224
Re:Trial and (Mosty) Error. - 2007/03/05 20:42Opened a Booster Display yesterday and got my first Trial and Error. Working on a deck design based on yours, and I am thinking of playing Wreaths.
I will report back, and again, thank you for pointing this out to me.
Smeelbo
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Smeelbo
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Posts: 224
Re:Trial and (Mosty) Error. - 2007/03/07 19:19I made Zombie Apocalypse version 0, with three Trial and Errors, and it was not as devestating as I thought. Some of that is that I don't think I have found the right income curve for it.
I found the Wreaths useful for early region holding, but so far have not gotten much hauling out of them. On average, when Trial and Error was played for the win, there were only two kamikazes in the scrapheap, for a bonus of +2. Enough to win, yes, but I think that going beyond +2 is what is worrisome about Trial and Error.
I had to proxy two of the T&Es. I am going to try a fourth, and see if that makes a difference. Also, I may drop the entire notion of mining (trying to both take advantage of Wreaths and Miner's Far Outpost), and go for some stronger non-kamikaze ships.
Smeelbo
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With a perfect draw (I would be mulliganing towards these cards) (other player would have to go first, or you add a turn)
T1: Forgotten Paradise Sublet Station Wreath
T2: Sansha's Nation Wreath to Sanshas Forgotten Paradise Sublet in sanshas Breacher Breacher
T3 Exhausted (target self) Exhausted (target self) Trial & Error
Trial & error should give you 3 ships on the scrapheap statistically due to the weight of ships in the deck. I will assume we were a bit below par and got 2
Now I haven't checked the statistics of drawing this combination, but give it a few more turns to get the appropriate cards out, that is the general idea, sublets & FP for income, get some kamakazi frigates out, Exhaust yourself. kill
Also Breachers are not imperative above, slashers or wreaths would do just as well as I have factored in assembly times for the breachers, and it drops the damage to the starbase to 9.
You may have noticed the deck above is 4 cards short, they could be any cards at the moment, and allow some improvement either to income stream or survivability, perhaps some martial law to protect against enemy news (which it is very vulnerable to)
Hey if you're income stream is good enough you could possibly even get a Phoon into play 8+x kamikazi ouch
I don't think this is an OMGIWIN deck it's probably going to take quite a few more turns to get the right cards.
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RedX
User Cruiser
Posts: 129
Re:Trial and (Mosty) Error. - 2007/03/09 13:24Smeelbo wrote: On average, when Trial and Error was played for the win, there were only two kamikazes in the scrapheap, for a bonus of +2. Enough to win, yes, but I think that going beyond +2 is what is worrisome about Trial and Error.
Interesting. I usually have 3-4 in my scrapheap. Perhaps we're approaching it from different directions? I tend to play it conservatively, wearing down enemy shipping where I can, and relying heavily on Den of Malidiction to get more ships. Sometimes I'll run through all four Slashers or Breachers in my deck well before the endgame. My inspiration is more the "Mater/Anti-Matar" concept then the (aptly described) "OMG WIN" ideal.
As for using Exhausted to blast my OWN hand... not something I would have considered, and even if I had I would have used Faulty Implants instead (ditch a card of your choice, one more card, AND make the opponent ditch one), or just slid in Remote Research Facilities. Exhausted sounds extremely risky to me, and if your first rush doesn't work and you have a Trial and Error in your scrapheap it's totally invalid.
We'll see how tonight goes; my main objective is scordite v. a more standard Veldspar-Sansha's approach.
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Brootal
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Posts: 464
Re:Trial and (Mosty) Error. - 2007/03/09 13:49RedX wrote: Smeelbo wrote: As for using Exhausted to blast my OWN hand... not something I would have considered, and even if I had I would have used Faulty Implants instead (ditch a card of your choice, one more card, AND make the opponent ditch one), or just slid in Remote Research Facilities. Exhausted sounds extremely risky to me, and if your first rush doesn't work and you have a Trial and Error in your scrapheap it's totally invalid.
I fully agree, this is a one trick pony. It'll smash or be smashed.
As for exhausted, I liked the concept based on the fact it's scaleable, if don't draw the cards, it gets a few turns down the game (and you managed to survive) the more ships you have out, the more cards you can just flip into the scrapheap. You don't need to rely on drawing a card or two every turn then discarding. You build yourself up a bit, nothing looks amiss. then bam, you flip your deck into your scrapheap and destroy him. Of course you'd want to plan for him knocking a ship or two out of warp, make sure you have a mind control or such to stop him taking out your T&E, or have a spare in hand before you made your move.
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RedX
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Posts: 129
Re:Trial and (Mosty) Error. - 2007/03/10 05:50Okay, I tested the deck above extensively tonight, and I can say I'm quite satisfied. It was against another Minmatar deck, a straightforward frigate/burn deck. I think all three times I won, it was via Trial and Error- the first game saw me outnumbered, out of ships, and about to die when a lone Breacher went screaming across the field for 9 damage.
My ISK curve when I didn't get a scordite was pretty horrible, though. I've re-fitted the deck with Veldspar, Remote Research Fac, and Sansha's- I'll see how that works. I've also stuck in Wreathe, thus giving me four of every inexpensive kamikazi ship available. I'm going to see how a less deliberate and more all-out-rush strategy works out, relying on Trial and Error almost entirely. I'm also going to try to play against something that isn't another burn-heavy Minmatar deck, though seeing ships pop left and right like soap bubbles was entertaining.
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