Re:eve draft - 2006/11/01 18:44Quantum Field Theory?
Sry for spam ^^'
Cheers Floi
The administrator has disabled public write access.
AgentZero
Admin Admin
Posts: 410
Re:eve draft - 2006/11/01 20:54The first "Let's get the f*** back on topic!" post!
Calmdown wrote: Essentially I ruin his entire game because I dislike him. That alone is enough reason for public draft to be not used.
Then of course you have the issues of tactical drafting. In normal 'closed' draft where you pass boosters around a table in some manner, at least you dont know who is taking what. In this format, you can actively target another player by drafting cards he seems to be picking. This doesnt sound too bad if you've never drafted before, but once you've played a few drafts and realise how impossible it is to go back once you've already commited to a certain style of deck (due to the limited card pool) you can see how much of a nightmare it could be.
I feel like I should point out that this also ruins your entire game as well. If the two of you are directly competing for cards, you're equally as screwed when it comes time to play. That's some pretty hefty hatred towards your opponent if you're willing to buy into a draft tourney, build an undesirable deck and then pretty much forfeit any chance of winning yourself.
But will this happen? Oh, I'm sure it will, but not as often as I think you're fearing.
Is it something we should consider when we revist the rules Definitely. But again, I don't think we need to worry too much.
Do I expect someone to do this to me at Fan Fest, in order to prove the point? I would be disappointed in you if you didn't! Zack Walters EVE: The Second Genesis Organized Play Coordinator White Wolf | CCP North America
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Calmdown
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 284
Re:eve draft - 2006/11/02 08:46The bits you quoted are part of two seperate things
Ruining someone's game actively is the nasty part I was talking about, but it can and will happen. You can dismiss that bit out of hand, though.
The second paragraph about tactical drafting will happen frequently, though, and in that regard Im not talking about doing it to ruin other peoples' game, Im talking about it as a tactic. It's a valid one in that format. I just think it lessens the game; if two or three people see a player drafting a certain deck, they only have to take a few cards off him each - when there's no cards for their own decks up for grabs, for example - to absolutely ruin his construction. They could do this because theyre friends, or because they dislike the guy, because they're afraid of facing him. A whole number of reasons, and it's doable without detracting from your own deck. That's the issue I have with open drafting. It's essentially the same problem as with playing a multiplayer game; if you gang up on someone, no matter how good they are they will nearly always lose. And Im against mechanics that take the ability to win out of the hands of the player.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Vardemis
User Frigate
Posts: 61
Re:eve draft - 2006/11/02 09:45Brokkur Helfari wrote: We are already looking into several different other drafting formats - one of which we will definitely try to squeeze into our FanFest schedule. Let me know if you want to participate
I'll post more details soon.
Petur
I am up for some drafts and very odd formats.
Calmdown wrote ... And Im against mechanics that take the ability to win out of the hands of the player.
I couldn't agree more.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Onyx Verde
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 660
Re:eve draft - 2006/11/02 09:49Looking at the new public draft format and the new rule where you get to look at your opponent's tourney deck, is it just me or does there seem to be too much emphasis on transparency in an effort to reduce / prevent scouting?============================ "There is always Hope...." - Elessar Telcontar ============================
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Calmdown
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 284
Re:eve draft - 2006/11/02 10:22Onyx Verde wrote: Looking at the new public draft format and the new rule where you get to look at your opponent's tourney deck, is it just me or does there seem to be too much emphasis on transparency in an effort to reduce / prevent scouting?
I think that seems to be the general aim. Unfortunately, the nature of the beast is that scouting is impossible to prevent. After a game, someone who's scouting could well have seen what you're playing, and when you play that guy next round and he sees your deck without cards he saw you previously playing, he now knows your sideboard.
Again, scouting is impossible to prevent - which means that the whole checking out your opponent's deck thing, being very arguable at best to start with, is kind of moot.
Vardemis wrote: I am up for some drafts and very odd formats.
Ditto
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Ryuteki
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 679
Re:eve draft - 2006/11/02 15:10Onyx Verde wrote: Looking at the new public draft format and the new rule where you get to look at your opponent's tourney deck, is it just me or does there seem to be too much emphasis on transparency in an effort to reduce / prevent scouting?
I couldn't agree more.-Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
AgentZero
Admin Admin
Posts: 410
Re:eve draft - 2006/11/02 15:51Calmdown wrote: The bits you quoted are part of two seperate things
Ruining someone's game actively is the nasty part I was talking about, but it can and will happen. You can dismiss that bit out of hand, though.
The second paragraph about tactical drafting will happen frequently, though, and in that regard Im not talking about doing it to ruin other peoples' game, Im talking about it as a tactic. It's a valid one in that format. I just think it lessens the game; if two or three people see a player drafting a certain deck, they only have to take a few cards off him each - when there's no cards for their own decks up for grabs, for example - to absolutely ruin his construction. They could do this because theyre friends, or because they dislike the guy, because they're afraid of facing him. A whole number of reasons, and it's doable without detracting from your own deck. That's the issue I have with open drafting. It's essentially the same problem as with playing a multiplayer game; if you gang up on someone, no matter how good they are they will nearly always lose. And Im against mechanics that take the ability to win out of the hands of the player.
Ah, I see. Your argument suddenly becomes much more persuasive now that I actually understand it.
While I'm not married to the current form of the draft, I'd still like to see it in progress before proposing changes to it. I honestly do want you guys to abuse it as much as you can at Fan Fest, though. Once we know how to break the system, we'll know how to fix it. Zack Walters EVE: The Second Genesis Organized Play Coordinator White Wolf | CCP North America
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Vardemis
User Frigate
Posts: 61
Re:eve draft - 2006/11/02 17:28I guess we will have enough time for some small drafts were we can see how the different draft formats are working for eve, since the game itself is a lot less restrictive in which cards you can use, then for example mtg, where you can really ruin someone elses draft on purpuse.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
