1. Do the new pirate towers count as being affiliated with the pirate factions once they are upgraded? (to bolster cards such as Blood Collector, Angel Centurion etc.)
2. Ahremen Arkar's pilot ability states:
PILOT Sacrifice Ahremen Arkah: Prevent all damage dealt to Arkah's ship until end of turn. Play this ability only in an outer region.
Does this mean that you can sacrifice Arkah in your management phase, making the ship completely immune to damage until end of turn and then attack a home region with your invulnerable ship?
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I can't see any problems with using Arkars' ability in that manner. No where does it say that Arkars' ship has to stay in the outer region.We shall seed the stars with our scions and reap that harvest.
No expect the Spam, spam, spam, spam...
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Entity
User Frigate
Posts: 36
Re:Pirate Towers and Ahremen Arkar - 2007/09/30 23:33The towers, I'd say no: It does not list it as being such a card in their type, which just says: "Upgraded Starbase".
As for Ahremen, I've been using him for exactly that. It's kind of lame though. Especially with Pator Tech School to load a ship full of Kaikka's and Brynn's, then sac Ahremen and attack and, well, you get the idea...
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Snooby
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Posts: 116
Re:Pirate Towers and Ahremen Arkar - 2007/10/01 00:19to the towers i would say yes, as they have their affiliations written on them, as it happens, just above the words "Upgraded Starbase" e.g. Angel Cartel Tower
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Buhallin
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Re:Pirate Towers and Ahremen Arkar - 2007/10/01 03:03I don't believe naming counts for types in EVE. The card anatomy clearly lists "Name & Card Type" as a block. The whole purpose of the card type seems to be to explicitly specify what types each card is.
There's nothing in the rules which explicitly spells it out either way, but since we have the specific types to go from, I'd use that rather than any incidental naming.
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Snooby
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Re:Pirate Towers and Ahremen Arkar - 2007/10/01 04:20If "Name & Card Type" is a block, then the two elements are connected. Looking to see if a card is of a specific type would you then not look at the block as a whole?
Angel Cartel Tower Upgraded Starbase
I also "disagree" with your use of the phrase "Incidental Naming" - although i understand what you meant, i don't believe the naming to be "Incidental".
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Buhallin
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Re:Pirate Towers and Ahremen Arkar - 2007/10/01 14:58Then would Blood Raiders be considered a Blood Raider card? Are Serpentis Battery and Guristas Battery cards of their appropriate factions, but Blood Battery isn't? Is Ship Computer Glitch a ship? Just because they're connected doesn't mean they're interchangeable.
We know that cards can check by type, as many do (frigate, ship, etc). There's nothing that really suggests that a specific name can satisfy the type requirements. Naming patterns are common in other games, but I believe the explicit type field is meant to avoid that particular approach. While it may seem odd, unless we find something that specifically indicates that cards are legal targets based on name, rather than just type, I wouldn't consider the name a legal qualifier.
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Bombadidaloo
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Re:Pirate Towers and Ahremen Arkar - 2007/10/03 05:35Buhallin wrote: Then would Blood Raiders be considered a Blood Raider card? Are Serpentis Battery and Guristas Battery cards of their appropriate factions, but Blood Battery isn't? Is Ship Computer Glitch a ship? Just because they're connected doesn't mean they're interchangeable.
We know that cards can check by type, as many do (frigate, ship, etc). There's nothing that really suggests that a specific name can satisfy the type requirements. Naming patterns are common in other games, but I believe the explicit type field is meant to avoid that particular approach. While it may seem odd, unless we find something that specifically indicates that cards are legal targets based on name, rather than just type, I wouldn't consider the name a legal qualifier.
Very good points Buhally!
I noticed someone mentioned earlier the idea of loading up a bunch of characters on a ship via Patrol Tech School. What are your thoughts on this, and whether or not it is legal? Because if it is, I have some really interesting ideas
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Buhallin
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Re:Pirate Towers and Ahremen Arkar - 2007/10/03 14:43Bombadidaloo wrote: I noticed someone mentioned earlier the idea of loading up a bunch of characters on a ship via Patrol Tech School. What are your thoughts on this, and whether or not it is legal? General consensus is that it's legal, at least as currently written.
@Snooby: I didn't doubt you understood, but I was pointing out several of the oddities which would arise if the naming-as-type were intentional. If you're going to argue that names count as types, and that this is intentional, then you have to address those oddities as either intended (which would be very strange, especially in cases such as the Batteries), or oversight. It wasn't intended to be repetition, or even clarification, but a query as to why you thought those cards would work as they did under your interpretation.
At the very least, when you say something, and someone says "There's nothing in the rules to support that you can do that", the ball's back in your court. Unless you agree that there isn't anything in the rules to support your point, and you're arguing for a change rather than an interpretation.
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AgentZero
Admin Admin
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Re:Pirate Towers and Ahremen Arkar - 2007/10/03 15:20Ahremen Arkah's pilot ability is going to be reigned in a bit in a forthcoming set of errata, but I can clear up the new towers right now:
The new starbases, when upgraded, still only count as Upgraded Starbases. They are do not contain the factional subtypes.Zack Walters EVE: The Second Genesis Organized Play Coordinator White Wolf | CCP North America
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Buhallin
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Re:Pirate Towers and Ahremen Arkar - 2007/10/03 16:17I assume then, Zack, that we can apply that to the broader question of whether names meet the subtype requirements? If Angel Cartel Tower isn't an Angel Cartel card, then that would seem to put that one to bed.
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AgentZero
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Re:Pirate Towers and Ahremen Arkar - 2007/10/04 20:46Buhallin wrote: I assume then, Zack, that we can apply that to the broader question of whether names meet the subtype requirements? If Angel Cartel Tower isn't an Angel Cartel card, then that would seem to put that one to bed.
Most definitely. Names do not influence a card's type.Zack Walters EVE: The Second Genesis Organized Play Coordinator White Wolf | CCP North America
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Brootal
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Re:Pirate Towers and Ahremen Arkar - 2007/10/05 00:18So I take this to mean that card type is always implied when referring to other cards unless stated otherwise. (eg Serpentis Battery, human containment facilites, iteron chain, etc)
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