a good article that is. i played a lot of FFA games, as my flat-mates just happen to sit at the table when i start playing it works quite good with leaving the regions and locations of defeated players on the table, it makes sense in an universal point of few that regions not just vanish. Exception would be if someone wants to leave after getting spanked
the predator and prey thing sounds not so good, i prefer the range rules a lot more. There would be no logical reason that my ships can only fly left. maybe the right indicator light is damaged?
Can't say a lot to the alliance rules yet, but theylook very promising and we are going to try that for sure.
and while you are at it you migth want to have look at the mini-master rules, which is nice format to play and you don't "waste" your boosters.
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Onyx Verde
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Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/27 09:09schubi wrote: There would be no logical reason that my ships can only fly left. maybe the right indicator light is damaged?
LOL...
Great article - Im glad that Tallest has finally straightened out the issue of what happens to defeated players cards. Haven't tried multiplayer yet, i can barely get a 1v1 game ============================ "There is always Hope...." - Elessar Telcontar ============================
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if any frindly ships can warp to all friendly outer regions without attacking it, how does the controller change then? do i just say next round you can have it for income? can all alliance members use the region's special abilities? or just the controller?
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Floi
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Posts: 81
Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/27 16:57The most common limitation is the range limit. A range of one means that you may may warp only into the regions of the players sitting next to you. A range of two extends your reach to two seats on either side.
Another take on the range idea is the predator and prey system[...]. The player to your left is your prey; he is the only player you may attack. The player to your right is your predator, and he is likewise allowed to attack only you. Once you have eliminated your prey, the next player in line becomes your prey.
I don't really like those limitations. I somehow appreciated with them while playing magic, but it doesn't feel right with the background and content of the game. It's a huge universe and ships can warp everywhere they want...
Apart from that I like the article. I've played some 3-player games until now and they all were quite short. But that may change now
Cheers Floi
Post edited by: Floi, at: 2006/11/27 17:54
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Blatherskite
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Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/27 17:48great article! I love the Alliance rules. We've been discussing team tournaments and this gets us that much closer. Thanks!Blatherskite Caldari Propagandist
A PRINCE ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline… - Machiavelli
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Ryuteki
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Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/27 21:07schubi wrote: the predator and prey thing sounds not so good, i prefer the range rules a lot more. There would be no logical reason that my ships can only fly left. maybe the right indicator light is damaged?
I can't imagine predator-prey working for this game without additional rules, as the VTES game that uses it has a specific benefit for the predator (bonus resources) when the prey leaves play. It actually doesn't prohibit you from attacking anyone else, it just makes it easier to attack your prey. Also, it gives the bonus resources to an ousted player's predator even if they are eliminated by someone else, which is the key to making the predator-prey relationship work. Perhaps if the predator received some amount of ISK and card draws when the prey was eliminated? (I'm thinking 5-10 ISK and 1-2 cards).-Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
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knight_of_lain
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Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/28 00:16As a long time VTES player i've been trying to put predator-prey system into EVE but the question about the resorces gain after ousting the prey arose. ISK jus weren't enough. That said - I love Ryuteki's idea of drawing additional cards - that is a huge boost in EVE environment where card drawing options are very limited. This weekend we're up for EVE: the Eternal Genesis
Edit: Oh by the way i would make card drawing optional after the ousting so you wouldn't get yourself decked by ousting your prey
Post edited by: knight_of_lain, at: 2006/11/28 00:18
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Brootal
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Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/28 04:01I. All of that player's cards are removed from play, except his or her outer regions and whatever locations have been played into them.
The wording to me implies only their locations that have been played into their outer regions remain in play. However you can play locations into any outer region. I would have thought all regions (excluding those in their home region) would remain in play.
It might be interesting for news cards with a duration to remain in play (if they still have a valid target), leave some time bombs for for the remaining players
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CrayNium
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Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/28 05:46A question about alliance play: if I play Senate Committee Chamber (When your starbase is attacked, double its total shield until end of turn), does that double only my starbase's contribution to the alliance's shield, or does it double the combined shields?
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Tallest
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Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/28 10:01if any frindly ships can warp to all friendly outer regions without attacking it, how does the controller change then? In the article, the rule looks like this: Players may warp into friendly regions and stay there without taking control of them. This rule probably needs to be tweaked a bit. The use of the word "may" implies that you can choose whether you want to take control of the region or not. I suggest changing the rule to this:
"Players may warp into friendly regions and stay there, but they do not start a battle in that region and they do not take control of the region."
If alliance members really want to change controller of a region, the player who currently controls it can warp his ships out, leaving it uncontrolled for his teammates to claim.
Perhaps if the predator received some amount of ISK and card draws when the prey was eliminated? If you eliminate a player in an attack, then you can withdraw to the outer regions that he controlled, because his ships are removed from play before you must withdraw. So there is a little benefit to ousting a player. But I agree that in a predator & prey game, the predator should gain from the death of his prey.
Here's my suggestion: "When the prey is eliminated, the predator takes the preys starbase and adds it to his own as a starbase structure with income +2. Then the predator draws 2 cards."
Flavor-wise, you would be gaining access to your preys regional market, therefore boosting your income and your hand. (since your hand represents what is available to you from the market.) Also, predator & prey sounds funny when you're playing CEO's of space corporations. We could call it bounty or contracts or something along those lines. Your company has been hired to destroy another company.
I. All of that player's cards are removed from play, except his or her outer regions and whatever locations have been played into them.The wording to me implies only their locations that have been played into their outer regions remain in play. It does imply exactly that. This was not my intention, so let's change it: "All of that player's cards are removed from play, except outer regions and locations in outer regions."
A question about alliance play: if I play Senate Committee Chamber (When your starbase is attacked, double its total shield until end of turn), does that double only my starbase's contribution to the alliance's shield, or does it double the combined shields? Since each player has a starbase, I would say that only that starbases shield is doubled, not the total shield of the alliance. In fact, let's change the wording of the rule. Old rule: Although each player has a starbase, the alliance only has one shield. Its hit point total is the combined total of all the starbases in the region. New rule: "Although each player has a starbase, their total shield values are combined during the resolution step of a battle in their region."Tallest Content Manager and Super Administrator (SUPER Administrator!!!) EVE: The Second Genesis
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Onyx Verde
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Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/28 10:41Nice one Tallest... multiplay is really beginning to tighten up I daresay that there will be more tweaking as the days go on, but at the moment it's lookin gooooood.============================ "There is always Hope...." - Elessar Telcontar ============================
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Ryuteki
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Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/28 21:43Here's my suggestion: "When the prey is eliminated, the predator takes the preys starbase and adds it to his own as a starbase structure with income +2. Then the predator draws 2 cards."
Hunh... interesting, that.
Question, do folks think there should be any added value in multi-predator-prey to taking out a non-prey? I like giving the predator bonus income rather than bonus ISK, that has a nice feel to it... but should the actual attacker gain some sort of salvage bonus for being the active attacker, or is the possibility of withdrawing to a previously occupied region bonus enough?
Disclaimer: I haven't actually played Multiplayer Eve of any sort yet, so I'm just speculating on the impact based on 2player eve and other multiplayer ccgs.-Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
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That's actually a perk I hadn't thought of, personally. First dibs on outer regions is a pretty hefty bonus.
Post edited by: AgentZero, at: 2006/11/29 00:29Zack Walters EVE: The Second Genesis Organized Play Coordinator White Wolf | CCP North America
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schubi
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Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/30 10:29Me and my flatmates played the 1st round with alliance rules and it was OK. One thing to clear up about passing the priority: The priority is passed around until noone else wants to play any cards or take any actions in the phase and then the next one starts. After us getting confused and quick help from AgentZero and OnyxVerde on #eve-ccg (that is a good service ) we moved on and lost to two magic honchos
A quick example management phase: 1. player A plays X and passes priortiy to B 2. B plays an outer region and passes prority to C 3. C does nothing and passes back to A 4. A warps a ship in B's new region 5. after all players (B, C and A) pass and don't play anything else the mangement phase ends.
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Onyx Verde
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Re:Massively Multiplayer Offline Games - 2006/11/30 11:59schubi wrote: After us getting confused and quick help from AgentZero and OnyxVerde on #eve-ccg ( it was all Zack, honest! I seriously cant take any credit, in fact I reckon my only contribution was to increase the general confusion ============================ "There is always Hope...." - Elessar Telcontar ============================
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it works quite good with leaving the regions and locations of defeated players on the table, it makes sense in an universal point of few that regions not just vanish. Exception would be if someone wants to leave after getting spanked 
) we moved on and lost to two magic honchos 
it was all Zack, honest! I seriously cant take any credit, in fact I reckon my only contribution was to increase the general confusion 
