News: 3 Remnant of Vak'Atioth 4 Mind Control 4 Adaster's Disaster
Starbase Structures: 2 Moon Harvester
Locations: 4 Echoes of Gloom Bay 4 Tourist Resort 4 Veldspar 4 Interstellar Trade Post
Post edited by: AgentZero, at: 2006/11/28 22:19Zack Walters EVE: The Second Genesis Organized Play Coordinator White Wolf | CCP North America
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stevetheone
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Posts: 540
Re:Olav Rokne, 2-4th place Gen Con So Cal - 2006/11/29 12:31Noticed that there are no mining ships or locations. How was the ISK output? Was it pulling enought to get the ships out fast and enough left over for News cards? What would you be looking for in your opening hand?We shall seed the stars with our scions and reap that harvest.
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Mining is currently an extremely poor way of generating income except in very specialist decks.
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DTee
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Re:Olav Rokne, 2-4th place Gen Con So Cal - 2006/11/30 11:22The mulligan approach I suggested to Olav was to keep upto four locations and one ship for every two locations.
I generally build decks to be slightly light on locations and then mulligan agressively for them. It seems better than running extra and drawing into more of them mid-game.
Insurance Fraud is much better than Moon harvesters and I prefer Martial Law to Mind control (because of Hired Enforcers).
DTee
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Calmdown
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Re:Olav Rokne, 2-4th place Gen Con So Cal - 2006/11/30 12:24DTee wrote: I generally build decks to be slightly light on locations and then mulligan agressively for them. It seems better than running extra and drawing into more of them mid-game.
This approach does generally work fine, but some decks really need a lot of locations to function. And then, there's the chance that if you run location light even with mulligans you will run into a poor location draw (a la Fanfest semi final).
Insurance Fraud is much better than Moon harvesters
That's a very apples and oranges comment. Though personally, I think Moon Harvesters suck royally as they can't ever be the beginning of an income curve, before you even get to the 'no ships, no isk' disadvantage.
and I prefer Martial Law to Mind control (because of Hired Enforcers).
Actually, Mind Control is much better than Martial Law when in general; the only time Martial Law tends to be good is when you're going for a final attack when your board position means you cannot lose. Although I have played Martial Law more than once as a defensive measure (against HE) I almost always find myself wishing it was a Mind Control.
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True but it's a really nice apple being compared with a half rotten orange. I can't imagine a matchup where I'd rather have the harvesters.
and I prefer Martial Law to Mind control (because of Hired Enforcers).
Actually, Mind Control is much better than Martial Law when in general; the only time Martial Law tends to be good is when you're going for a final attack when your board position means you cannot lose.
Although I have played Martial Law more than once as a defensive measure (against HE) I almost always find myself wishing it was a Mind Control.
That's interesting. I'm sure Mind Control is better against a wide range of decks (especially Caldari) but I'm not convinced that stays true as the environment becomes more focussed on the few good decks we've seen so far.
You've probably played Minmatar a lot more than me, so I'll definitely keep an eye on that one...
DTee
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Calmdown
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Re:Olav Rokne, 2-4th place Gen Con So Cal - 2006/11/30 14:36DTee wrote: True but it's a really nice apple being compared with a half rotten orange. I can't imagine a matchup where I'd rather have the harvesters.
Dont get me wrong, I totally agree; Insurance Fraud is a way better card. What I mean is, I'd don't consider them to fit into the same slot in a deck.
Post edited by: Calmdown, at: 2006/11/30 14:38
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Onyx Verde
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Re:Olav Rokne, 2-4th place Gen Con So Cal - 2006/11/30 15:00DTee wrote: True but it's a really nice apple being compared with a half rotten orange. I can't imagine a matchup where I'd rather have the harvesters. DTee
I would have said that Moon Harvesters were practically a 4x auto-include for multiplay... This is just conjecture though, having barely played 1v1 let alone multiplayer ============================ "There is always Hope...." - Elessar Telcontar ============================
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Mining is currently an extremely poor way of generating income except in very specialist decks.
While I have only built a couple of decks I've found mining to good way of generation isk early in the game. I've managed to pull 5-6 isk on a second turn quite consistantly through a combination of mining and income generators. With a number of ships with mining 2 and locations with multiple mineral values I would have thought it would make for good ways of generating wealth, especially with ships like the Bantam, Ibis and Probe.We shall seed the stars with our scions and reap that harvest.
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Blatherskite
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Re:Olav Rokne, 2-4th place Gen Con So Cal - 2006/11/30 17:30The problem w/ mining is that it is easily countered, esp early before you can get really set up. Cards like Khanid Kingdom can be a real pain. Also, lets say you start to mine early, I just need to send...say a Condor..to your home region to get that miner off his mineral. I'm not saying mining sucks...you just really need to dedicate to it and thats hard to make the deck competitive.Blatherskite Caldari Propagandist
A PRINCE ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline… - Machiavelli
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Calmdown
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Re:Olav Rokne, 2-4th place Gen Con So Cal - 2006/12/01 08:54stevetheone wrote: While I have only built a couple of decks I've found mining to good way of generation isk early in the game. I've managed to pull 5-6 isk on a second turn quite consistantly through a combination of mining and income generators. With a number of ships with mining 2 and locations with multiple mineral values I would have thought it would make for good ways of generating wealth, especially with ships like the Bantam, Ibis and Probe.
As long as Khanid Kingdom exists, 'standard' mining (ie, not turbo-arkonor etc, which do work to an extent) will never be a viable option, especially in tournaments where all competent players should have KK in their region selection.
Also as Blatherskite said, while you're spending money on miners, your opponent is spending money on small ships that are going to come and force them to dock every turn and generate you 0 ISK.
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stevetheone
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Re:Olav Rokne, 2-4th place Gen Con So Cal - 2006/12/02 12:17Calmdown wrote: stevetheone wrote: While I have only built a couple of decks I've found mining to good way of generation isk early in the game. I've managed to pull 5-6 isk on a second turn quite consistantly through a combination of mining and income generators. With a number of ships with mining 2 and locations with multiple mineral values I would have thought it would make for good ways of generating wealth, especially with ships like the Bantam, Ibis and Probe.
As long as Khanid Kingdom exists, 'standard' mining (ie, not turbo-arkonor etc, which do work to an extent) will never be a viable option, especially in tournaments where all competent players should have KK in their region selection.
Also as Blatherskite said, while you're spending money on miners, your opponent is spending money on small ships that are going to come and force them to dock every turn and generate you 0 ISK.
A tactic I have used against opponents mining operations. I'll have to experiment with just income sites in a couple of decks to see what I can do. Thanks for the advice.We shall seed the stars with our scions and reap that harvest.
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