Post edited by: Brokkur Helfari, at: 2006/10/31 09:12Lead Designer EVE: The Second Genesis
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Onyx Verde
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 663
Re:Rule Changes - Feedback - 2006/10/31 10:03All pretty straightforward, but im especially glad that there's a ruling about not ending a turn with a ship in an enemy region - there was some debate (with no definitive conclusions!) over at the Scrapheap regarding this. Other than that, it's good to see some clarification on Oneiros so that it no longer has stand-alone invulnerability. And the reworking of Target Jamming means that we now have viable anti-Ambush tactics other than Kamikaze. I think that this latter change will probably have the single biggest effect on gameplay out of all the errata and re-rulings, the rest were just clarifications of the devs' intent essentially...
Nice job fellas! Keep her lit!============================ "There is always Hope...." - Elessar Telcontar ============================
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Vardemis
User Frigate
Posts: 61
Re:Rule Changes - Feedback - 2006/10/31 13:28Very nice and imho needed changes to the rules. Especially the changes to Jamming and the Scimitar.
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Calmdown
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 284
Re:Rule Changes - Feedback - 2006/10/31 14:19I like the Target Jam change. The rest all seems like sensible wording changes, apart from a slight technical gripe with Sensor Dampen, which should probably read 'gain' rather than 'get'.
Did I miss something about the Scimitar changing? It looks the same to me, other than a possible wording change as I dont have one in front of me.
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Brokkur Helfari
Admin Admin
Posts: 33
Re:Rule Changes - Feedback - 2006/10/31 16:04Did I miss something about the Scimitar changing? It looks the same to me, other than a possible wording change as I dont have one in front of me.
Its only the wording
PeturLead Designer EVE: The Second Genesis
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Malthros
User Cruiser
Posts: 98
Re:Rule Changes - Feedback - 2006/10/31 21:52They look good, however kamikaze still has the problem of being a nearly unstoppable win since it won't be killable by ambush, or stopped by target jam, but at least a thrasher can pop them the second they warp into his region.
The playing of a card clears up the mega and martial law for me, although I could've sworn you or tallest had replied in an eve-o post saying that on the pile, they could be destroyed.
"Pending abilities: The player whose turn it is choses in which order they go on the pile if more than one pending ability triggers at the same time."
Does this mean an attacking player can chose to have his thrasher's ability go on the pile before (or after?) a defender sacrifices kamikaze frigs to destroy it?
The changes look good, however it's sad to see that the Onerios will remain such an insanely powerful card.
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Calmdown
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Re:Rule Changes - Feedback - 2006/10/31 22:05 The changes look good, however it's sad to see that the Onerios will remain such an insanely powerful card.
Oneiros dont kill Starbases, they have assembly 2, and your opponent still needs to get two out for them to be insane. They're really good, but it's by no means a conclusive strategy, imo.
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That makes defending a base extremely hard. Even if you have 12 or 13 shields, that's only the onerios and a couple frigs max to kill you, and it's pretty hard to kill half a dozen frigs when you need 2-3 frigs, or a cruise, to kill them each.
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Ryuteki
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Posts: 679
Re:Rule Changes - Feedback - 2006/11/01 00:53I love that you now have more ways to deal with Ambush, as it otherwise leads to Mexican Standoffs.
I don't see how the new pedantic wording on Sentry Gun is any different, or an improvement on the older more streamlined wording.
Several of the "errata" and "rules changes" seem to have no functional chanage at all in fact, they are templating changes which at best qualifies as Clarifications. Conversely, Docking = Warping is a Rules Change, as Warping is otherwise defined as moving your ship from one region to another. I would recommend making it a Rules Change to the definition of Warp: "The action of moving a ship, either from one region to another region, or into/out of your starbase dock."-Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
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Onyx Verde
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Re:Rule Changes - Feedback - 2006/11/01 09:48Im wondering what the thinking behind the Docking = Warping rule change... As far as I see it the only time that warping is not allowed is after you attack an opponent, although you can "withdraw"... so does this mean that if you attack an enemy region, you couldn't withdraw your ships to your home region AND dock them all at once? Is that the reason behind the rule change or am i missing something? Because if that's the rationale then it doesnt seem terribly important, except maybe for the Ibis which gives its shield pump when docked============================ "There is always Hope...." - Elessar Telcontar ============================
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Calmdown
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Re:Rule Changes - Feedback - 2006/11/01 11:42Malthros wrote: Even 'just' +4 to all ships shields is pretty insane.
That makes defending a base extremely hard. Even if you have 12 or 13 shields, that's only the onerios and a couple frigs max to kill you, and it's pretty hard to kill half a dozen frigs when you need 2-3 frigs, or a cruise, to kill them each.
But, the Guardian is worse in that regard (being able to absorb *all* damage from one shooting round), in actual fact.
My point is, it's an assembly two ship with no attack of it's own. It needs backup and a properly played deck to work. And you get time to find a way to deal with it, plus you will generally see it coming two turns in advance, too. Which makes it fine in my opinion. Im not saying it isn't a really strong card. But then, so is Ship's Computer Glitch, Vet's Premature Retirement, Exiled From The Empire, Pirate Mercenary, and so on and so forth.
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Calmdown
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Re:Rule Changes - Feedback - 2006/11/01 11:44Onyx Verde wrote: Im wondering what the thinking behind the Docking = Warping rule change... As far as I see it the only time that warping is not allowed is after you attack an opponent, although you can "withdraw"... so does this mean that if you attack an enemy region, you couldn't withdraw your ships to your home region AND dock them all at once? Is that the reason behind the rule change or am i missing something? Because if that's the rationale then it doesnt seem terribly important, except maybe for the Ibis which gives its shield pump when docked
In that case you dont withdraw to home then dock, you withdraw directly to your dock, so that isn't a change.
I can't really see any effects at the moment either. But remember, these changes are viable for the future too. For example, if Ship's Computer Glitch was published in the first expansion, they now wouldn't have to include 'cannot dock' on the card as that's implicit in cannot warp.
As far as I can see, it's just a change to how concise the rulebook is.
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Say someone invades both an outer region you control and your home region. Attacking the home region is a ship (pick one, there are several) with warp scramble that's only there to cut off the escape. Now that you don't have to pass go, you can withdraw and dock without getting cut off.http://trade.mahasamatman.com/Eve/list_show.pl?user=aubuchonm
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Say someone invades both an outer region you control and your home region. Attacking the home region is a ship (pick one, there are several) with warp scramble that's only there to cut off the escape. Now that you don't have to pass go, you can withdraw and dock without getting cut off.
You never *did* have to pass go. You could withdraw from anywhere, straight to your dock.
Withdraw Step (II) Players may withdraw any number of their ships to their dock or to any regions that do not have enemy ships in them.
IE, You didn't have to be in your home region to begin with to withdraw to dock, unless there was a ruling contrary to that that Im unaware of.
Warp Scrambling ships couldn't 'catch' ships as they passed through your home region even if it did work like that, anyway, since scrambling is done before ships choose and attempt to withdraw.
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Say someone invades both an outer region you control and your home region. Attacking the home region is a ship (pick one, there are several) with warp scramble that's only there to cut off the escape. Now that you don't have to pass go, you can withdraw and dock without getting cut off.
Not sure that i follow you but i am hitting my mid-afternoon slump... In the above scenario the Home Region battle will resolve first, and even if this wasnt the case the Outer region defending ships wouldnt be able to withdraw to the Home Region due to the presence of enemy ships. But I think you may have hit upon the crux of this rule change - does it mean now that defending ships in a Home Region are immune to Warp Scramble becuz they're not withdrawing to their dock, they're warping?? ============================ "There is always Hope...." - Elessar Telcontar ============================
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Because if that's the rationale then it doesnt seem terribly important, except maybe for the Ibis which gives its shield pump when docked
