-Starbase structures x14: 4x sentry gun 4x warp disruption field 4x astronautical laboratories 2x the viper's nest
-News x14: 2x gravity storm 4x veteran's premature retirement 4x damage control 2x lost deliveries 2x forsaken ruins
Total 52
Thank you.
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Smeelbo
User Cruiser
Posts: 224
Re:Mr H 's Gallente deck - 2007/02/10 19:51I am not trying to be mean, but I don't see this as a very good deck, although maybe I do not "get" the strategy.
First, it does not seem to be able to hold regions. The ships are very small and weak, and easily destroyed, in combat or otherwise.
Second, the miners have only Mining 1, which is not worth the effort by itself. Crumbling Moon is slow.
Third, too many starbase structures, and these do not focus on victory.
Fourth, the Iteron chain is too weak in practice. Even with mulligans, I have found I get an Iteron in or near the opening only half the time. Worse, since Iterons are Limited, it is slower than I would like, and prevents you from playing Limited locations the same turn you Iteron. Also, they are not very good for holding regions, not even the Pocket.
I am sorry, but this deck looks slow and unfocused to me.
Smeelbo
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RedX
User Cruiser
Posts: 130
Re:Mr H 's Gallente deck - 2007/02/11 05:52It's an Astrolab deck, I think. Get four Iterons, with one in your hand and the others in play. Get a number of Astrolabs out, then reveal that one Iteron 3-4 times to make all the others +6/+9 or +8/+12. Also works if you get enough copies of any of the other ships. I've had this trick pulled on me, and it's a real killer.
That said, I can see some room for improvement. You don't really, actually need miners to run the deck- in fact, your opponent is going to love to be able to kill your ISK production that way. If you have to, use Ibis (for additional defense) and Tormentor, which combines with Scordite nicely.
The location mix is a bit mining-dependant. It's a nice mix if you manage to keep the miners alive... but that's far from assured. Toss in some Velspars and maybe a couple Remote Research Facilities- you are, after all, a combo deck. Milling past useless cards is one of your priorities.
Speaking of getting what you need when you need it, consider lots of Bad News and Incubation Dome- both get you that 3rd or 4th Astronomical Lab sooner.
As for things to drop... the Viper's Nest only works against enemies with activated commands, which will rapidly become de-activated when the card hits play. As you appear (to your opponent) have no real ship-based threats, he won't bother activating Ambush or Patrol.
Lost Deliveries is an interesting touch, but does it really slow the enemy down that much? I guess it doesn't hurt you much, though... interesting indeed.
Why Gravity Storm and Forsaken Ruins? Are there really that many Starbase Structures or Outer Regions that are a threat to you?
Finally... Monopoly Tower? Why!? Try Dominion Tower, to give pause to an outer-region-happy opponent, or Enthrallment Tower to get a cheap +2 shield and a one-time drain to enemy ISK. Monopoly Tower is simply more likely to lose you the game than to win it.
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Kester
User Frigate
Posts: 68
Re:Mr H 's Gallente deck - 2007/02/11 09:48RedX wrote: Finally... Monopoly Tower? Why!? Try Dominion Tower, to give pause to an outer-region-happy opponent, or Enthrallment Tower to get a cheap +2 shield and a one-time drain to enemy ISK. Monopoly Tower is simply more likely to lose you the game than to win it.
Definitely agree here. I've been tinkering around trying to build a Monopoly Tower deck for a while, and you need more ships than are in this deck, both for region-holding, and to qualify toward the "most ships" win condition of the tower.
I'm not sure if the original poster is trying to go for the Monopoly Tower win (I'm assuming this is why Grav Storm/Forsaken Ruins and the huge amount of starbase structures are in here) or the Astrolab/Iteron combo mentioned above - as has been noted, the deck seems unfocused.
If you are trying to build a Monopoly deck, 4x Ibis is a must, and Navitas is a better choice than the Iterons - 6 shield for 4 ISK is a good region-holder early on, and you get trading and anti-news ability on top of that. Also, more ships, and Stain.
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Mr H
User Frigate
Posts: 12
Re:Mr H 's Gallente deck - 2007/02/11 12:08Thank you for answering me so quickly and sorry, i don't tell you how this deck works. I will try ,with my poor english,to show you "the strategy " of this deck.
I attempt a deck which win by the monopoly tower's victory condition. I play very small ships with no assembly, they come immediately in play and they are unaffected by Lost Deleveries. I play Inferior Iteron because it works well with Astronautical Laboratories.
I play a lot starbase structures for having the stronget starbase on table. -I play warp disruption field in association with Metropolis to force the opponent to spend a lot of money to strike my starbase. -Sentry gun is a good defence against small ships. -The viper's nest is a good suprise to keep in hand. When i have enough Astrolabs and iteron i can use it to cleanse the defence of my opponent and attempt to attack his base. I can also use it to gain the numeral superiority needed for the starbase's victory condition.
-I play Scordite with Star Chart Enterprise; with 2 mining ships i can easily earn 8 isk turn 2. I play Crumbling Moon but following the Smeelbo's advice, i will remove it.
-I play two Gravity Storm to destroy opponent's starbase structures specially Astrolab. -Forsaken ruins is used to chase from outer region opponent's fleet for keeping the numeral superiority of region. Used with Damage Control it can be useful to re-take the control of Metropolis which is crucial in the starbase's defence. -Lost Deleveries is very useful because no ship in my deck has assembly. It is a good way to delay the arrival of opponent ships. Also with Damage Control, before it duration ends, you can return it in your hand and immediatly replay it. Veteran's Premature Retirement is not really used for it defensive aspect. I often win the game with this card, by reducing the number of opponent's ships under mine before the management phase.
Thank you for your advices. I will certaintly follow them. When I would have finish the modifications of this deck, i will show you the result.
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Mr H
User Frigate
Posts: 12
Re:Mr H 's Gallente deck - 2007/02/11 12:09Thank you for answering me so quickly and sorry, i don't tell you how this deck works. I will try ,with my poor english,to show you "the strategy " of this deck.
I attempt a deck which win by the monopoly tower's victory condition. I play very small ships with no assembly, they come immediately in play and they are unaffected by Lost Deleveries. I play Inferior Iteron because it works well with Astronautical Laboratories.
I play a lot starbase structures for having the stronget starbase on table. -I play warp disruption field in association with Metropolis to force the opponent to spend a lot of money to strike my starbase. -Sentry gun is a good defence against small ships. -The viper's nest is a good suprise to keep in hand. When i have enough Astrolabs and iteron i can use it to cleanse the defence of my opponent and attempt to attack his base. I can also use it to gain the numeral superiority needed for the starbase's victory condition.
-I play Scordite with Star Chart Enterprise; with 2 mining ships i can easily earn 8 isk turn 2. I play Crumbling Moon but following the Smeelbo's advice, i will remove it.
-I play two Gravity Storm to destroy opponent's starbase structures specially Astrolab. -Forsaken ruins is used to chase from outer region opponent's fleet for keeping the numeral superiority of region. Used with Damage Control it can be useful to re-take the control of Metropolis which is crucial in the starbase's defence. -Lost Deleveries is very useful because no ship in my deck has assembly. It is a good way to delay the arrival of opponent ships. Also with Damage Control, before it duration ends, you can return it in your hand and immediatly replay it. Veteran's Premature Retirement is not really used for it defensive aspect. I often win the game with this card, by reducing the number of opponent's ships under mine before the management phase.
Thank you for your advices. I will certaintly follow them. When I would have finish the modifications of this deck, i will show you the result.
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Smeelbo
User Cruiser
Posts: 224
For the benefit of Mister H... - 2007/02/11 19:29Now that I understand your intent a little better, here are my comments.
Inferior Iteron seems a week reed to build a deck upon. I tried it before, but as I said, about half the time I did not see an Iteron within the first few turns, even with aggressive mulligans.
The Inferior Iteron also locks you into holding a region early so you can take advantage of its Trade 2. Since it is Limited, you almost certainly need the trade command active for income, as you won't be playing any Limited locations the same turn. Perhaps By The Emperor's Decree might alleviate that.
Also, because it is Limited, it would take a minimum of three turns to bring out three Iterons, so I think you'd need to get that started earlier rather than later. For your purposes, e.g. getting three on the table, the fact that they are Limited makes them effectively Assembly I.
12 ships is a very small number of ships, in my opinion; I usually play with half again or even double that. Twelve weak ships seems unlikely to yield ship superiority. Since you are mining for income, you will need them out sooner rather than later, and once on the board they are vulnerable. Mining 1 is not a good source of income, but it seems you are depending on it. If the idea is to keep them in your hand until the Big Suprise, they will be competing with news for handspace, since you can only hold seven cards.
For mining, Pyroxeres is generally superior to Crumbling Moon. It is not limited, and so plays better with Iteron. However, Mining 1 times Mineral 2 is only 2 ISK, making your miner-Pyroxeres pair yield the same as a pair of Veldspars.
Consider instead the Tormentor. First, Mining 2 combined with Pyroxeres is 4 ISK. The difference pays for itself in a turn or two, and then you are way ahead of the curve after that. It is far more durable, having five shields, and it cannot be targeted by more than one ship, so it does a much better job of holding regions, and also is a better choice for Astronautical Laboratories than Velator.
The telling question is, though, will you survive the rush? Will a Minmatar kamize or generic cruiser rush deck flatten you before you get the ball rolling?
Veteran's Premature Retirement costs 5 ISK and a card, and will generally buy you two turns. Sentry Guns don't stop kamikaze, and with no fighting ships to back them up, are not as effective at defending your starbase. Lost Deliveries seems a worthwhile game delayer.
But since you never really threaten your enemy, you are mostly leaving him free to develop as he wishes. Yes, you slow him down with your news, but he can still grow his economy at his leisure, and work at his marshmellow surprise for you. Since your economy is not that great, a slow building opponent is likely to be able to outspend you, whereas a rush opponent may strangle your dreams in their crib.
Be careful judging your deck based on your local opponents. I see a lot of "reverse chicken," where players vie to play a little less slowly than their opponents, which leads to longer games than one should rightly expect. Be sure to keep something like a Minmatar kamikaze rush deck available to test against.
Smeelbo
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