Re:Kamikaze seems very weak - 2006/11/12 11:04Actually, you can safely declare kamikaze first without waiting for your opponents reaction with the sentry. The kamikaze always goes through.
Both sentrygun and kamikaze are pending effects that trigger at the same time. The active player (making the attack) gets to choose in which order pending effects go on the pile so he just puts the sentrygun's effect at the bottom. Got item?
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Civi
User Cruiser
Posts: 121
Re:Kamikaze seems very weak - 2006/11/12 11:23Totally aree, but was trying to show that whatever way you choose to resolve the Beginning of Battle, the Kamikaze can always go through without being stopped. As it was suggested by others that the Sentry Gun would stop it.
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I guess the best thing to do is not shoot at a ship with Kamakazi, as your shots will most likely be wasted. (since the ship is being sacrificed anyhow)
But having enough ships with Kamakazi to take out your opponents starbase shields isn't going to be enough, usually.
If the have a ship patrolling, you're going to need to remove it or force force your opponent to remove it's "patrol" command. Or have an extra ship(s) to deal with your opponents patrolling ships.
The game can be won vary quickly with your tactic, it's discussed in a diferent section of the forums. Someone keeps winning in 3 turns using ships to Kamakazi his opponents starbase.
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bedog
User Scout
Posts: 8
Re:Kamikaze seems very weak - 2006/11/12 20:54TheLion wrote: But having enough ships with Kamakazi to take out your opponents starbase shields isn't going to be enough, usually.
If the have a ship patrolling, you're going to need to remove it or force force your opponent to remove it's "patrol" command. Or have an extra ship(s) to deal with your opponents patrolling ships.
Not really, since the Kamikaze effect isn't affected by the patrol command...
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I really don't know how to make it work consistantly never mind in 3 turns. Seeing that deck would be interesting. Just now I think I could do it in 4/5 turns minimum if I got the cards I needed.
Alternatively, forcing a Typhoon out ASAP is 8 Kamikaze and surely a game winner if it has a couple Breachers backing it.
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Iron Warrior
User Frigate
Posts: 13
Re:Kamikaze seems very weak - 2006/11/14 20:48I know this is growing overly redundant, but Kamikaze is what sold me on playing Minmatar at GenCon. It's a great mechanic, and it fits wonderfully with the story to. Crashing and dying for a cause is a good time. As for it being a consistant quick win or reliable game ender, that has continued to elude me, but it is an powerful backup!Minmatar Vigilante
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Civi
User Cruiser
Posts: 121
Re:Kamikaze seems very weak - 2006/11/14 22:16Looking over my deck again and again, I feel Trial And Error is the card that ensures a quick victory, otherwise you hold out until you can drop multiple cheap Tempests for superior firepower or ram a Typhoon with backup into the enemies starbase
So there's a quick way out but a long term fall back plan.
Kamikaze 4 teh WIN!
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There is currently no way in the game to stop Kamikaze.
Anything you do to a Kamikazi'ing ship will fail, since the ship dies as a cost, and the damage goes on the stack. Therefore you cannot react with a nuke, or a bounce, or anything else as the target has died already. And the damage is already on the stack, which is then unremovable too.
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Bora Chinua
User Frigate
Posts: 18
Re:Kamikaze seems very weak - 2006/11/15 12:10There has been some discussion on the eve-online forums about the kamikaze. Here is one link that I found real quick:
There are a lot of issues that have been discussed there already. You can also search for things on http://eve-search.com/ as a lot of the CCG posts got deleted when the eve-online site was spam attacked and eve-search retained the older posts.
In your service
Bora
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Civi
User Cruiser
Posts: 121
Re:Kamikaze seems very weak - 2006/11/15 12:29I have just discovered Sebiestor Smelting Plant and when combined with say... Typhoon it gives me the FEAR!
The ability to have the same ship Kamikaze MORE THEN ONCE especially if it is 8 damage per shot is a sure game winner.
Kamikaze just has so many strengths and a nice amount of low end support as well as 2 great high end avenues (Typhoon/Tempest).
Definitely a top tier deck design
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Vardemis
User Frigate
Posts: 61
Re:Kamikaze seems very weak - 2006/11/15 13:50I think the ability of the Sebiestor Smelting Plant is way to expensive to be worthwhile when playing a Kamikaze deck.
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Civi
User Cruiser
Posts: 121
Re:Kamikaze seems very weak - 2006/11/15 14:25Vardemis wrote: I think the ability of the Sebiestor Smelting Plant is way to expensive to be worthwhile when playing a Kamikaze deck.
My current Kamikaze build uses Scrap Metal Garages to make up to 8isk every time I blow up one of my ships, as well as Heaven. Cash is really never a problewm in that deck, and I intend to only use it once, maybe twice a game for the win.
For a final attack you should have enough income to use it at least once, causing a Tpyhoon to do 16 damage, more if you use Trial And Error, even more if you can use Smelter twice. A starbase that can survive that is rare.
It's a bit techy and a lot of people don't like combos, but I want to see if it works...
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Calmdown
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 284
Re:Kamikaze seems very weak - 2006/11/15 14:46Im playing around a lot with Typhoon at the minute as well. The problem is, as has been said, the sheer amount of ISK it needs. Plus, the number of cards.
- 27-30 ISK to get the phoon into play without assembly 3 - 10 ISK to use the plant - saved up ISK and Mind Control/Martial Law for news defense
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