The Cyclone - 2006/11/08 13:08The Cyclone says that it gets -2/-1 for each ship that targets it.
If I have 2 OMEN and and I warp into HEAVEN, where a CYCLONE and 2 SLASHERS are, I target my sensor dampen at the Cyclone, so it gets -6/-2, then I fire the OMEN at the two Slashers. Does the Cyclone also get -4/-2 because I targeted it with 2 ships, for a total of -10/-2?
Also,
If I have Crokite x2 at an outer region with a badger, and an opponnet warps a rifter and a breacher into that region, am I allowed to sacrifice those cards to do 3dmg each before the battle phase begins?
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Ryuteki
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 679
Re:The Cyclone - 2006/11/08 15:12The Cyclone only takes -2/-1 for each ship targetting it during the Targetting Phase of battle. Effects such as Sensor Dampen do not trigger the Cyclone's effect.
As far as Crokite, yes, you can sacrifice it at any time as long as you are in control of the region.-Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
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CrayNium
User Frigate
Posts: 40
Re:The Cyclone - 2006/11/09 03:55Ryuteki wrote: As far as Crokite, yes, you can sacrifice it at any time as long as you are in control of the region.
I would contest this. When an attacker warps into a defender's region, their ships are locked down from taking any further actions until the battle phase begins. The rulebook says that this is because the moment you warp into an enemy-controlled region, you have attacked it, essentially meaning that the battle begins the moment you warp. As far as playing the game goes, you will not INSTANTLY start that battle, but that's because you may have other battles to declare. If you consider a warp to be an action on the pile, I'd say that as soon as the warp resolves, the ships are IN the begin battle phase, and that includes the defender. So if a defender tries to sacrifice crokite when an opponent declares that they are warping into that region, but before the begin battle phase, I would place the crokite action on the pile started by the warp, meaning it resolves first and has no legal targets because the warp has not yet resolved.
Even if that's not the case, though, you'd probably want to wait on that crokite action, anyway. The OP said that rifters were warping in, so I assume that he's concerned with shooting them down before they have a chance to kamikaze. The best way to do this would be to wait for the battle phase, anyway. Since the attacker must declare his intentions first, if he plans on using kamikaze, the defender will still be able to respond to it during the begin battle phase. If you activate the crokite ability when the attacker declares kamikaze, it goes on the pile above kamikaze, so it still beats them to the punch. Plus, that way you wait to make sure the attacker was planning to kamikaze. If he wasn't planning on it, and you fired off your crokite early, you just wasted your resource.
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Ryuteki
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 679
Re:The Cyclone - 2006/11/09 14:34"Warp a ship > Deactivate a ship’s command and move it from one region to another. If you warp a ship into an enemy controlled region, your ship has attacked that region and cannot execute any of its abilities, activate any of its commands, or warp again during this management phase."
"Battle Phase If you attacked one or more enemy regions by warping your ships to them during your management phase, all attacks must be resolved with a series of battle phases before the end phase can begin."
You have an interesting interpretation of the battle phase, but I'm afraid it is not supported by the rules of the game. Attacking means two things: One, you are considered an "Attacking Ship" until the attack has resolved, which provides the above restrictions. Two, there will be a battle phase in every region that contains an attacking ship. There are no imposed restrictions on the defender, and in particular there is nothing preventing them from using Thrasher or Crokite to anhillate your inbound force.-Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
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bedog
User Scout
Posts: 8
Re:The Cyclone - 2006/11/09 15:54I think the clue is that you would be in two different phases of the game...
The crokite damage would be dealt in the management phase, thus removing the Rifter and the Breacher.
If this was the only place attacked, there would be no battlephase for them to use their kamikaze in, since they no longer would be on the table...
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TheLion
User Frigate
Posts: 50
Re:The Cyclone - 2006/11/10 12:03How would it be possible for the Minmatar ships to be in a region I controlled, on the Minmitar player's turn, and in MY management phase? That's impossible, unless I attacked the Miinmitar player, but then I wouldn't have been in control of the region and there-fore not able to sacrifice Crokite.
You can't sacrafice a card you don't control, even if you played the card into the game.
The only time to use Crokite is when an oppoenet warps ships into a region you control. Sometime between that point and the end of the battle phase, is when Crokite can be used. At other times, no opposing ship shold be in the same region at the same time, ever. (as far as I know)
Outcome = Crokite can be sacrificed, as can all cards that can be sacraficed, by their controlling player at any time unless the card states otherwise.
Some one come up with a better explination/idea?
Perhaps, Crokite is ment to be sacrificed when an opposing player warps ships into a region you control, and only at that time. The battle pase doesn't begind until the attacking player is ready is finished warping ships. You can't for example, warp a ship from your home region to a opponent controlled region, wait to determine the outcome of that battle, then warp 2 more ships from your home region to another location. I.E. - you can't wait to see the outcome of a battle, b4 you attack another region. All warping is done b4 the battle phase begins.
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CrayNium
User Frigate
Posts: 40
Re:The Cyclone - 2006/11/11 07:32I think my interpretation is supported by the rules. Why would you be unable to warp your ships again after entering an enemy's territory if they are not immediately embroiled in the battle?
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Civi
User Cruiser
Posts: 121
Re:The Cyclone - 2006/11/11 09:15To try and help clarify:
-When ships warp to a location with enemy ships they are considerd to be performing an attack and can no longer perform actiions.
-A battle does not officially start at a location until the Begin Battle Step at that region. This is during the Battle Phase.
-Once the ships are moved to a region they are considered in that region.
-Crokite can be activated at any time.
-Kamikaze can only be used during the Begin Battle Step.
So once the ships have warped to the region with Crokite, you may detonate it and destroy the ships without them being able to react. If you wait until the Battle Phase to destroy it, rather than the Management Phase, then they will be allowed to Kamikaze as well.
I hope this helps.
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