Duplicate outer regions? - 2007/09/09 23:30You can only play an outer region if there is no other outer regions in play with the same name.
So sayeth the rules... Now once more, we return to the infamous play/put into play distinction...
Serpentis Drug Outlet: At the beginning of battle, you may search your opponent's unplayed outer regions and put one into play for free.
So, if I play my version of, say, Insmother, and my opponent happens to have it in his region deck as well, can the Drug Outlet get the duplicate onto the table?
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Looks like the rule needs to be changed... maybe to something like "An outer region may only enter play if there doesn't already exist one in play with the same name."
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Should it? probably not. But it gets around the duplicate rule for all the same reasons as other put into play vs played situations.
Agreed. How amusing. I dislike the Drug Outlet more and more each week. It's amazing how such an incredibly useless ability can create so darned many problems. Then again, it's always the useless ones that get overlooked I suppose, squeaky wheel and all that.-Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
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Sellout23
User Frigate
Posts: 23
Re:Duplicate outer regions? - 2007/09/20 13:31its not useless. Its used to counter the Stain + Cartel tower lockTeam R.I.W hobbies "We decide the meta!!!".
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Ryuteki
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 679
Re:Duplicate outer regions? - 2007/09/21 01:32Sellout23 wrote: its not useless. Its used to counter the Stain + Cartel tower lock
It does not successfully counter that lock unless your opponent is impatient and/or a poor tactician, since you cannot use the location's ability until your opponent attacks you somewhere where you have a Drug Outlet.-Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
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Erk
User Frigate
Posts: 15
Re:Duplicate outer regions? - 2007/10/04 09:44I believe that i read some where on this forum that if one rule allowed you to do something and another rule forbade it, you should go with the 2nd rule.
So, i'd say you wouldn't be able to play it.
Erk
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stevetheone
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 540
Re:Duplicate outer regions? - 2007/10/04 09:54Remember the golden rule people: if a card ability contridicts a rule the card wins.We shall seed the stars with our scions and reap that harvest.
No expect the Spam, spam, spam, spam...
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Snooby
User Cruiser
Posts: 116
Re:Duplicate outer regions? - 2007/10/04 16:52And yet how many times on this forum do we see "you can't do what the card says because the rulebook says this..."
*sigh*
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Buhallin
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 509
Re:Duplicate outer regions? - 2007/10/04 18:57Note the important part: if a card ability CONTRADICTS the rules. If the card directly tells you to do something that the rules generally prohibits, the card wins. If the card doesn't directly contradict a rule, the rule wins.
Everyone follows this, whether they realize it or not. For instance, there's a rule that says I have to pay the ISK cost of a news to play it. Well, the news has an ability - if the ability overrides the rules, then why should I have to pay the cost instead of just getting the ability for free?
If the ability says it can be played for free in certain circumstances, then that DOES directly contradict the cost rule, and the card wins.
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And yet how many times on this forum do we see "you can't do what the card says because it directly contradicts the rulebook..."
and yes, sometimes the rulebook wins.
Other than errata, I don't think we ever see that....we do have discussions about various cards and some I don't think we resolved. It's all about which rules are being contradicted and which rules are not. These things are determined by the wording of the card and the rules. The wording on a card always wins where it specifically contradicts a rule. Wording on a card can also circumvent certain rules.
1. Rulebook says you can only play an outer region if there are no outer regions of the same name in play 2. Rulebook says only one outer region may enter play each turn.
Card Says: At the beginning of battle, you may search your opponent's unplayed outer regions and put one into play for free
This card directly contradicts some basic rules: Search your opponent's un-played outer regions. Put one of your opponents outer regions into play Put it into play without paying it's cost.
This card circumvents the 1st rule quoted above because the card specifically says "put into play" rather than play.
The card does not circumvent the 2nd rule quoted above as the rule relates to cards entering play, which occurs, and it does not specifically contradict this rule by stating something like "and put one into play, even if one has already been played this turn" therefore the 2nd rule still holds.
I don't think anyone says you can't do what the card says because it directly contradicts the rulebook, it's more you can't do that because it doesn't directly contradict the rulebook.
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Maybe we have different definitions of what constitutes "directly contradicting". Can you offer some examples that have you so concerned? Maybe we can clear them up.
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