The Scrapheap - 2007/09/11 17:46Now that we have the Blood Herald and the order of cards on scrapheap is important.
Are there any rules governing the scrapheap; shuffling, reordering, looking at?
Post edited by: rorik36, at: 2007/09/11 17:47
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Snooby
User Cruiser
Posts: 116
Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/11 19:01Strange, the rulebooks make no mention of this.
Most other ccgs though have a rule that "you may look through your discard pile at any time but you cannot arbitrarily alter the order of the cards". Others allow you to look at an opponent's discard pile as well.
I guess this will need to be errata'd because someone will try and loophole it :/
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Buhallin
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Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/11 19:52If we're going to make the rule based on assumptions from card abilities, then:
- You can look through the scrapheap. This is necessary for cards like War Tattoos and Trial and Error. Whether you can do so at any time, or only when needed for one of these cards, is an open question. - Assuming the rules tell you what you CAN do, you cannot arbitrarily reorder your scrapheap. - Any action which requires random selection from the scrapheap requires shuffling before performing, and that shuffle would stand.
As to the open question of whether you can do it at any time - cards going to the scrapheap is public knowledge. It's not stated anywhere in the rules that you can look through it at any time, but IMHO if I could duplicate the knowledge with either a good memory or a handy pad of paper, there's no point in prohibiting it. So, I'd think you can look through either scrapheap at will.
Of course, this is all guesswork based on card effects, and we all know how much I love that
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Kaemonn
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Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/11 20:16You may look through yours or any opponent's scrapheap when ever you want, but you may not change the order of it in anyway unless a card tells you to draw at random.New sig image in progress...
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Brootal
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Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/11 21:25- Any action which requires random selection from the scrapheap requires shuffling before performing, and that shuffle would stand.
That is not necessarily true, it is possible to use a randomization method that doesn't require shuffling & reordering the scrapheap (eg roll a dice)
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rorik36
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Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/12 11:44Kaemonn wrote: You may look through yours or any opponent's scrapheap when ever you want, but you may not change the order of it in anyway unless a card tells you to draw at random.
So if a card asks you to draw at random you shuffle your scrapheap before you draw the card. Right? Just wanting to close all of the loop holes now.
Will that be the only way to decide? I like the random die method. Mostly because if I have a Herald on top, I have a very small chance of moving from that position if I roll.
(edited for stupid early morning spelling mistakes)
Post edited by: rorik36, at: 2007/09/12 11:48
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RedX
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Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/12 12:16[img] rorik36 wrote: Kaemonn wrote: You may look through yours or any opponent's scrapheap when ever you want, but you may not change the order of it in anyway unless a card tells you to draw at random.
So if a card asks you to draw at random you shuffle your scrapheap before you draw the card. Right? Just wanting to close all of the loop holes now.
Will that be the only way to decide? I like the random die method. Mostly because if I have a Herald on top, I have a very small chance of moving from that position if I roll.
(edited for stupid early morning spelling mistakes) <br><br>Post edited by: rorik36, at: 2007/09/12 11:48
Problem there is getting a die with the same number of sides as the cards in your scrapheap.
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stevetheone
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Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/12 14:03Not really. You just use a die or dice (e.g. 2d10) that covers all the cards in the pile and ignore any result that does not corrospond to card.We shall seed the stars with our scions and reap that harvest.
No expect the Spam, spam, spam, spam...
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Blatherskite
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Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/12 19:19We just do a quick shuffle of the scrapeheap, fan out the cards face down and let your opponent pick the card. Simple.Blatherskite Caldari Propagandist
A PRINCE ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline… - Machiavelli
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Ryuteki
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Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/13 01:39stevetheone wrote: Not really. You just use a die or dice (e.g. 2d10) that covers all the cards in the pile and ignore any result that does not corrospond to card.
If the solution NEEDS to involve materials that are not part of the game, odds are it is an invalid solution. This is the best argument for shuffling the scrapheap as far as I am concerned. -Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
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Brootal
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Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/13 02:18The point is the rules never state how you should randomly determine a card, it is reasonable to assume that a player may use any method they that is sufficiently random, while shuffling may be the generally easiest and most readily available method, any other method should be acceptable as long as it doesn't adversely delay the game. There is also nothing in the rules that states that a scrapheap cannot be rearranged at any time, this definitely needs fixing given the latest cards.
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stevetheone
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Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/13 10:38It probably would have been better is they just said if One or more Blood Heralds are in your scrapheap gain the bonus. When I saw it I didn't like the look of the card and still don't.We shall seed the stars with our scions and reap that harvest.
No expect the Spam, spam, spam, spam...
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rorik36
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Re:The Scrapheap - 2007/09/13 12:17Blatherskite wrote: We just do a quick shuffle of the scrapeheap, fan out the cards face down and let your opponent pick the card. Simple.
Yeah, we do that to. But it would be in my best interest if I was playing the Blood Herald to do it a different way that would keep it on top.
I am sure we will get a ruling that you have to shuffle the scrapheap when you draw randomly from it. I just want to make sure we get it down now so we are not arguing it in the next big money tournament.
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If the Herald was on top before the shuffle and it didn't get randomly drawn then we return it to its position after the drawing. Blatherskite Caldari Propagandist
A PRINCE ought to have no other aim or thought, nor select anything else for his study, than war and its rules and discipline… - Machiavelli
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