Dock or undock a ship > Move a ship from dock to your home region or from your home region to dock.
In The Exiled, however, you may now warp directly in/out of dock as a single action without first having to "go through" a home region?
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Buhallin
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 514
Re:Mutiny and assembling ships - 2007/09/25 00:30Exiled says: Move a ship from your dock to your home region, from your home region to your dock or from one region to another.
Emphasis mine. It seems that you cannot affect any movement involving an opponent's dock.
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Snooby
User Cruiser
Posts: 116
Re:Mutiny and assembling ships - 2007/09/25 00:51The bit i am missing is how you would gain control of a ship in an opponent's dock?
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Ryuteki
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Re:Mutiny and assembling ships - 2007/09/25 00:52Under the Management Phase > Play a card from your hand: "Ships come into play docked, and await assembly if needed." Rulings on Scordite vs Sansha's say that "played" happens before "comes into play" though.
Therefore, the question is, are ships Played into the Dock? Daring Infiltration seems to imply that ships being played are targettable by news, but one could argue that DI was simply a case of the card superceding the rules. It has generally been accepted that Exiled from the Empire can target and destroy a ship as it is coming into play, so the conclusion would be that ships are not "in dock and untargetable" until they Come Into Play. Kind of scary, but there you have it. Consider it to be equivalent to planting a mole in the construction yards.
Regarding gaining control of a ship that is stuck in your opponent's dock, Withdrawl may move a ship directly into your own dock without passing the home region, this has been established precedent. Mutiny also directly tells you to withdraw the ship to your dock, which would be a case of the card overriding the rules that you cannot warp a ship out of your opponent's dock.
Post edited by: Ryuteki, at: 2007/09/25 00:53-Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
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Brootal
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Re:Mutiny and assembling ships - 2007/09/25 03:00Yep, I'd agree with Ryuteki's last post, mutiny clearly tells you to withdraw the ship. Withdrawal is not warping.
Of course the problem (A purely hypothetical one at this stage) would be what if you gained control of a ship in the opponent's dock, but the card did not make you withdraw it? Is it stuck. Does a battle phase occur inside the opponent's dock? Hopefully that's a scenario that will not occur.
The only issue I see is the line under ships in the new rules sheet states "When you play a ship from your hand, it is docked inside your starbase"
Probably should say "comes into play"
Everywhere else throughout the rulebook implies ships go on the pile and are targetable like any other card:
"Play a card > You play a card by paying the price of a card in your hand, revealing it and placing it on the pile. If cards “come into play” in any other way, they are not considered “played.” Cards on the pile can be targeted and destroyed unless they specifically say that they cannot (i.e. Thorax and Megathron cannot be targeted by news, and Martial Law can neither be destroyed nor targeted)."
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stevetheone
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Posts: 540
Re:Mutiny and assembling ships - 2007/09/25 11:56Interesting thoughts and debate. Having read through all the comments I have to draw the conclusion that Mutiny can be played on a ship as it comes into play. I would ask an administrator to clarify if Mutiny can be played on a ship that is not in play just to be 100% sure though.
As to what it can do once it has mutinied I would certainly argue that it must leave the opponent's dock area and go to one of the controlling players' regions.We shall seed the stars with our scions and reap that harvest.
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Brootal
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Re:Mutiny and assembling ships - 2007/09/25 14:02stevetheone wrote: As to what it can do once it has mutinied I would certainly argue that it must leave the opponent's dock area and go to one of the controlling players' regions.
That is simple, mutiny tells you you must immediately withdraw it to you own dock. You don't have a choice.
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Buhallin
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Re:Mutiny and assembling ships - 2007/09/25 15:08stevetheone wrote: Interesting thoughts and debate. Having read through all the comments I have to draw the conclusion that Mutiny can be played on a ship as it comes into play. I would ask an administrator to clarify if Mutiny can be played on a ship that is not in play just to be 100% sure though.
I think we established over in another discussion that a card on the pile was considered to be in play, so I don't think this is an issue.
The enemy dock confusion was my fault - I'd forgotten that Mutiny forced a withdraw when it triggered.
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stevetheone
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Re:Mutiny and assembling ships - 2007/09/26 14:24Buhallin wrote: stevetheone wrote: Interesting thoughts and debate. Having read through all the comments I have to draw the conclusion that Mutiny can be played on a ship as it comes into play. I would ask an administrator to clarify if Mutiny can be played on a ship that is not in play just to be 100% sure though.
I think we established over in another discussion that a card on the pile was considered to be in play, so I don't think this is an issue.
The enemy dock confusion was my fault - I'd forgotten that Mutiny forced a withdraw when it triggered.
Just had a thought if the ship is considered to be in play then is it effectively in dock and so can't be targetted?
I think that still works and if that is the case it makes it easier to see whether card can effect ships being played. Exiled from the Empire still works in these circumstances as it's targetting cards being played so not in play. Is there any other card that would not work but should in these circumstances.We shall seed the stars with our scions and reap that harvest.
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