Liberty Tower, Cyclone, Discard - 2007/01/21 21:16At first, no this is no question about some very strange card combo After some battles during the weekend I need your help!
1) Liberty Tower "Upgrade only during any player's end step" "All ships that went to your scrapheap from play this turn are returned back to your hand"
To the first part: If I upgrade my tower during MY turn, do I have to reduce my hand down to 7 cards AFTER that? I thought "yes", but a friend of mine said "no". Second part: Does the tower returns your destroyed ships only once it is upgraded or every turn you lost at least one ship. Second would be way to overpowered I think.
2) Cyclone "Cyclone gets -2/-1 for each enemy ship that has targeted it this turn"
Does that only apply for each ship that is targeting cyclone during target step or does it include every ship that use an ability or command against Cyclone?
Example for second: Attacking Cyclone, defending Kestrel with active ambush. Kestrel targets Cyclone with ambush 4, so Cyclone gets 4 damage and -2/-1 during withdraw step and is destroyed even before getting targeted during target step.
3) Omber (or general "discard") My opponent at first played Star Chart Enterprises, after that he played Omber and "discarded" his Star Chart Enterprises for its additional cost. But I was right to tell him he only can "discard" cards from his hand, no cards allready played, right?
Post edited by: Zorbarak, at: 2007/01/21 21:18Nothing is as simple as it looks.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Ryuteki
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 676
Re:Liberty Tower, Cyclone, Discard - 2007/01/22 00:08Zorbarak wrote: "Upgrade only during any player's end step" "All ships that went to your scrapheap from play this turn are returned back to your hand"
To the first part: If I upgrade my tower during MY turn, do I have to reduce my hand down to 7 cards AFTER that? I thought "yes", but a friend of mine said "no".
Yes. Per the rulebook, discarding down to 7 cards "completes your turn."
Zorbarak wrote: Second part: Does the tower returns your destroyed ships only once it is upgraded or every turn you lost at least one ship. Second would be way to overpowered I think.
Once per game only, at the end of the turn you upgrade it.
Zorbarak wrote: 2) Cyclone "Cyclone gets -2/-1 for each enemy ship that has targeted it this turn"
Does that only apply for each ship that is targeting cyclone during target step or does it include every ship that use an ability or command against Cyclone?
Target step only.
Zorbarak wrote: 3) Omber (or general "discard") My opponent at first played Star Chart Enterprises, after that he played Omber and "discarded" his Star Chart Enterprises for its additional cost. But I was right to tell him he only can "discard" cards from his hand, no cards allready played, right?
Correct. Cards in hand are "discarded" (as per Omber), cards in play are "sacrificed" (as per Scordite).-Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Kestrel destroys the Cyclone with the ambush damage.
Ryuteki wrote:Target step only. Wrong. If it was target step only, Cyclone would read:
"Cyclone gets -2/-1 for each enemy ship that targets it during target step."
It doesn't say that, so it doesn't work that way.Tallest Content Manager and Super Administrator (SUPER Administrator!!!) EVE: The Second Genesis
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Onyx Verde
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 639
Re:Liberty Tower, Cyclone, Discard - 2007/01/22 13:33Tallest wrote: 2) Cyclone gets -2/-1 for each enemy ship that has targeted it this turn.
Kestrel destroys the Cyclone with the ambush damage.
Ryuteki wrote:Target step only. Wrong. If it was target step only, Cyclone would read:
"Cyclone gets -2/-1 for each enemy ship that targets it during target step."
It doesn't say that, so it doesn't work that way.
So let me see if i understand this: Cyclone will get -2/-1 not only for each ship that targets it (during target step) but also for each ship that uses an ability (which uses the word "target" e.g. Ambush, Patrol, Sensor Dampen) that gets applied to the Cyclone also?
For example, Cyclone (+ other ship) vs Punisher: The Punisher uses its Patrol ability (targeting the Cyclone) and then targets the other ship as normal during combat. So is the Cyclone still -2/-1, even though it wasnt targetted in the normal 'combat' sense? If that's the case then it will nerf the Cyclone even more, because it will still be able to be 'targetted' by e-warfare modules, and the opposing ships dont necessarily have to focus fire on the Cyclone, they can shoot at other ships.============================ "There is always Hope...." - Elessar Telcontar ============================
The administrator has disabled public write access.
"Cyclone gets -2/-1 for each enemy ship that targets it during target step."
It doesn't say that, so it doesn't work that way.
Seriously? First, y'all use Target to mean more than one thing in the rulebook, which is an unfortunate choice. Second, as Onyx points out, this ruling makes Cyclone a Very Bad Card (tm) and I was giving the design team more credit than to have created one that followed the above rules. *shakes head sadly* You built a ship that falls apart if people LOOK at it wrong (cf: Patrol). That's just all kinds of wrong, guys.
Post edited by: Ryuteki, at: 2007/01/23 17:52-Ryuteki, Owner of the Rules! We're playing Monday evenings in IL, see www.games-plus.com for the address or email me at ryuteki AT gmail DOT com.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
izumo13
User Frigate
Posts: 46
Re:Liberty Tower, Cyclone, Discard - 2007/01/22 21:43I think each ship that targets Cyclone can only give it -2/-1 once per turn. In other words, a ship that targets Cyclone during the withdrawl phase, and the again during the targeting phase, would only give the Cycloe -2/-1, not -4/-2.
The fact that it says "for each ship that targets", not, "whenever Cyclone becomes targeted by a ship".
If it were the latter, a Maller would be able to give a Cylone -6/-3 by targetting it with everything! (two commands + an attack)
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Onyx Verde
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 639
Re:Liberty Tower, Cyclone, Discard - 2007/01/23 08:58Ryuteki wrote: You built a ship that falls apart if people LOOK at it wrong... Nice one centurion...============================ "There is always Hope...." - Elessar Telcontar ============================
The administrator has disabled public write access.
aneis
User Frigate
Posts: 11
Re:Liberty Tower, Cyclone, Discard - 2007/01/23 12:41Ryuteki wrote: You built a ship that falls apart if people LOOK at it wrong (cf: Patrol). That's just all kinds of wrong, guys.Well it *IS* Minmatar
The administrator has disabled public write access.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Smugger
User Frigate
Posts: 54
Re:Liberty Tower, Cyclone, Discard - 2007/01/24 08:25Can you "target" the same ship with several patrol commands? If you have 2 ships on patrol can they both use the patrol command on the same enemy ship and would that mean the ship will have both your ships target or just the last of them to use the command?
... Might be getting a bit of topic here... oh well.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Tallest
Admin Admin
Posts: 113
Re:Liberty Tower, Cyclone, Discard - 2007/01/24 08:42Sure you can. But that ship's controller can then choose which of the ships to target during target step.
You built a ship that falls apart if people LOOK at it wrong (cf: Patrol). That's just all kinds of wrong, guys. Think of it this way: If there is no-one to look at it, it's a fracking huge ship. And Minmatar is very good at blowing up everything that might want to look at it.Tallest Content Manager and Super Administrator (SUPER Administrator!!!) EVE: The Second Genesis
The administrator has disabled public write access.
schubi
User Battlecruiser
Posts: 257
Re:Liberty Tower, Cyclone, Discard - 2007/01/24 11:01it's not that bad. on the other side: there have to be some "not so good" cards too. anyone knows "Brass Gnat" from the current MtG edition? that one is real crap and i'm an official member of the team "Brass Gnat" here at my place
The administrator has disabled public write access.
For example, if you target the Cyclone with two Velators, would it get -4/-2? Yes.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
DTee
User Cruiser
Posts: 222
Re:Liberty Tower, Cyclone, Discard - 2008/02/15 10:35As Tallest pointed out, the Cyclone is a really nice fit for the way Minmatar Trade off their cards. With hindsight I'd say the card is under-powered and the (higher) power level of Angel Marauder suggests the Exiled designers saw it that way too.
It takes a massive number of games to work out which cards are too weak or too strong (CCG's would be dull if it was obvious) the development team don't have that kind of time so every set of every game has had a few duds.
DTee
The administrator has disabled public write access.
