Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/03 03:30I have the idea for a deck, and i am not sure if it will work to well. I heard somewhere that since kamikazee is a ship dealing damgage, it is droubled by a frailty tower. Theoreticly, you could biuld a decent deck out of cheak kamikazee ships, and trump out anything that is starting to get to large. I know there are flaws in the idea, but i think the theory is sound. I am working on a deck list, and it is allmost done. But does anyone have any ideas, or thoughts? I think the deck should trample even battle ships. the ability to peck even large ships off the face of the earth with a frigate or two is an intriquiging idea."If it is stupid, and it works. It ain't Stupid."- Unknown "As long as there are men, there will be war." - Einstein "There is a point to everything" - Uglio, the pointless forest
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Onyx Verde
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Posts: 610
Re:Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/03 12:36Trial and Error is a must in any kami deck, and it gets better the further into the game you get. Look at ways to recycle from your scrapheap too, such as Sansha's Nation, or even consider using the Liberty Tower.
Be careful though that you dont leave yourself too thin on the ground in terms of not having enough ships to meet the Two-Region rule.
Also, consider replacing your kamikaze tactics with the use of Necropolis - the two are similar enough in terms of costs (i.e. sac a ship) but Necro is a lot more versatile, and the ability itself is totally unstoppable. The trade-off is that your opponent's ships dont get destroyed, just sent back to their hand. And you cant use the ability against starbases the way you can with kami.
There should be loads of kami rush-style decks on the boards here. All you need to do is modify them for the current play environment...============================ "There is always Hope...." - Elessar Telcontar ============================
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Mortus946736
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Re:Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/03 21:04Well, i have been experimenting, and i think Kami is the way to go. I need to get my hands on some trial and error, but with the deck i am biulding, at least 16 kami ships. Two probes and a breacher kill a star base. At base shield anyway. It would end up being ship hate, because i know the decks i will be playing around me tend to either rush, or crush."If it is stupid, and it works. It ain't Stupid."- Unknown "As long as there are men, there will be war." - Einstein "There is a point to everything" - Uglio, the pointless forest
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Mortus946736
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Re:Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/06 22:38Ok i have a deck list, and please comment. Im waiting on getting some trial and errors, as well as a few other cards. But this is the list as stands now Starbase: Frailty Tower Outer Regions: Lonetreck Heaven The Khanid Kingdom Locations:13 1 forgoten Paradise 2 Angel's red Light district 2 Omber 2 Sansha's Scout Outpost 4 Veldspar 2 Star Chart Enterprises Starbase Structures 1 Thukker Pirate Haven News: 14 1 Advanced Cloning 2 Faulty Implant Manufacturer 4 Mind Control 3 Adaster's Disaster 3 Remaints of Vak'Atioth 1 Day of Retribution Ships : 28 4 Breacher 4 Probe 4 Rifter 4 Slasher 4 Burst 1 Rupture 2 Belicose 2 Thrasher 2 Angel Gatherer 1 Wreathe Characters : 5 2 Manimon Aralia 2 Beynn Jerdola 1 Hakim Stormare
Total cards, 64 Please give me tips/ideas!
Post edited by: Mortus946736, at: 2008/03/06 22:41"If it is stupid, and it works. It ain't Stupid."- Unknown "As long as there are men, there will be war." - Einstein "There is a point to everything" - Uglio, the pointless forest
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Brootal
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Posts: 454
Re:Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/07 05:04quick scan of the deck, looks like you've got all the kamikaze rush ships there.
But I'd question a few things:
Angel Gatherer: 5 isk for a mining ship. This deck needs to play fast, by the time I could afford 5 isk I'd want to be playing rifters, not building an isk base.
Omber: Is the discard worth it? this deck you are trying to play lots of little ships which you are going to sacrifice to kill his, every card in your hand is important.
Long term plan: At the end of the day you need to kill his starbase. I've got a slower deck, and all it generally plays in the early turns is starbase structures which build it's shields also you said "Two probes and a breacher kill a star base" no they don't sorry, if you're relying on frailty tower, it's only ship to ship damage, not ship to starbase. you need 3 breachers and a probe. If your opponent gets down some starbase structurs early, your game rapidly goes out the window. Killing ships doesn't win the day.
You should put in some form of long term game plan, if you use your kamakazi frigates to wipe out his fleet, what's left to finish him? You've got a rupture and 2 thrashers. To my mind not quite enough.
Changes I'd make?
I'd replace the Gatherers with Scythes more ship kill, but this doesn't go to the scrapheap, also a bit stronger for the later game.
Perhaps another rupture in place of the wreath
I would also consider a Cyclone, it's got a huge drawback, but if you're planning on wiping out ships, this should be less of a problem.
I'd drop some of your news probably the 2 Faulty Implant manufacturers and lone day of retribution and replace them with 3 with gravity storm to get rid of troublesome starbase structures like juggernaught platform.
Perhaps replace the ombers with a couple of tourist resorts, as you intend to make holding outer regions difficult
I'd replace the angels red light districts with perhaps mroe tourist resorts.
Just some ideas on a friday afternoon after taking clients to "lunch"
Post edited by: Brootal, at: 2008/03/07 05:05
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Mortus946736
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Re:Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/08 15:02Oh, by the way. Two probes is 6 damage, and a breacher is 1. That is all without any boosts. Of course, switch out the breacher for a slasher, and that is 9 damage, all without any boosting or upgrading the tower.
I had two belecose's in their as well, a totaly ok ship for this deck. I see what you meant about the faulty implant manufacturer's, and the day of retribution. The cyclone i had dropped earlier because of its drawback, but i guess in hindsight it would be a good idea. I also went through a pie of my angel cartel cards, and game up with some interesting put ins. Angel raider, 3 isk, and deals 4 damage to a ship during a target phase, angel traitor, angel Haunter( to counter enemy rush) and angel vipers to replace the angel gatheresrs. An angel procurer would work nicely as well, negating an enemy ship.
Angel battery boost my own shield, provides defense agaisnt an enemy frigate rush, and provides income. That goes in, not sure how many copies though. Also, reapers? i know they have no attack, and are soon outclassed, but even outclassed, that single amubush, and coupled with its cheap cost and lack of assembly, i think it could go in. Scrap metal garage is going in, makes a very nice combination with kamikazee. Two isk for one of your ships dying.
location wise, i am not so sure that i would be unable to hold onto outer regions, especialy during late game, so i think some of the other locationms might work. Pyroxeres and solid Pyroxeres both are useful locations, and can be used in your home region in combination with your miners.Bistot is allso a good first turn drop, and its draw a card ability might become useful at some point.Crokite in an outer region would go nicely, for say holding onto heaven. I would be hesitant about playing gneiss, but i dont see a reson not to play the others.
Now for the news, i can easily agree with the gravity storms, why not put in insurance fraud? That is great to give you a decent surge of income, especialy with this deck.As a defensive card, incase the tide turns on you, why not put in great ambushes?
Post edited by: Mortus946736, at: 2008/03/08 15:41"If it is stupid, and it works. It ain't Stupid."- Unknown "As long as there are men, there will be war." - Einstein "There is a point to everything" - Uglio, the pointless forest
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Brootal
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Posts: 454
Re:Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/09 22:54ah sorry, 2 probes and a breacher kill a starbase after you take care of their ships, I see what you're talking about now, I was assuming kamikaze so you could just go straight past their ships, but that's 2 probes and a breacher in addition to getting past any force they have.
i am not so sure that i would be unable to hold onto outer regions, especialy during late game Didn't mean to say you couldn't, just that by your intentions stated above, that he couldn't, and you could safely choose not to if you so desired.
Also just noticed you have a 64 card deck, which I don't think is a problem in itself, especially as if they play bigger ships you may end up trading 2 for 1, but expect to be skipping your income to draw cards a lot. This is one of the best mechanics of Eve I believe, built in card draw if you need it, and in my opinion this deck needs it far more than it needs isk.
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Mortus946736
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Re:Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/10 01:14Allright. I just took this deck to a tourny, and ended up going 4 wins for 4 losses. Two of the losses, after making some of the suggest changes, where from not drawing a single location. The others were simple trading offs against a caldari deck that glitched my movement back to my home region. Deck list should be up again in a few days"If it is stupid, and it works. It ain't Stupid."- Unknown "As long as there are men, there will be war." - Einstein "There is a point to everything" - Uglio, the pointless forest
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Brootal
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Re:Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/10 03:03Hmm, your lack of drawing locations could be due to your large deck size.
people consider about 12 right (unless that's changed when I wasn't looking) in a 52 card deck, so you probably should have about 15 in your deck, you are a bit short on locations. while not Critical, you are running a bit lean, so getting no locations is possible. Did you use your mulligan? if you have no locations in hand I would always mulligan all 7 cards no matter how good the cards you have in hand seem, getting basic locations out early is crucial.
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Mortus946736
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Re:Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/10 04:48Well, the 64 cards was with the starbase and outer regions, and now i have fixed all the problems. On friday, i look forward to retesting the deck against the people who beat me, and i will see how well the now tuned up deck does against them. In the mean while, i have most of the decklist done, ill post it in a few hours."If it is stupid, and it works. It ain't Stupid."- Unknown "As long as there are men, there will be war." - Einstein "There is a point to everything" - Uglio, the pointless forest
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Mortus946736
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Re:Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/13 02:19Allright. I played with this deck against several types of decks, and discovered that it was a very solid deck. During the tourny i played it in, the only flaw was i drew too few locations, and it coincidentaly lost those two games. However, in ever game i got a single starting location in my hand, this deck typicaly trampled my opponents. I have just finished fixing the location problem with this deck, using a few suggestions from RedX. ((He plays a mean ship burner deck)). So here is my new decklist, please comment!
Starbase: Frailty Tower Outer Regions: Lonetreck Heaven The Khanid Kingdom Locations:18 2 Solid Pyroxeres 1 Bistot 4 Omber 4 Sansha's Scout Outpost 4 Veldspar 2 Star Chart Enterprises 1 Forgotten Paradise Starbase Structures 7 3 Scrap Metal Garage 1 Thukker Pirate Haven 1 Repair Outpost 2 Moon Harvester News: 10 1 Trial and Error 3 Mind Control 3 Adaster's Disaster 2 Remaints of Vak'Atioth 1 Day of Retribution Ships : 24 4 Breacher 4 Probe 4 Rifter 4 Slasher 2 Carcal 1 Rupture 2 Belicose 2 Thrasher 1 Cyclone"If it is stupid, and it works. It ain't Stupid."- Unknown "As long as there are men, there will be war." - Einstein "There is a point to everything" - Uglio, the pointless forest
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Mortus946736
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Re:Kamikazee Oblivion? - 2008/03/17 04:01I have done some pretty excessive testing now, and it works well. The only problem im seeing is some one playing ship kill decks. Does anyone have any ideas about that?"If it is stupid, and it works. It ain't Stupid."- Unknown "As long as there are men, there will be war." - Einstein "There is a point to everything" - Uglio, the pointless forest
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